Well I'm super glad I saw this coming a mile away and managed to get to it before the takedowns. Obviously Nintendo has a right to safeguard their IP. Any dev trying to make a game with one of Nintendo's properties might as well count that project dead on arrival.
That said, this was clearly a labor of love. Moreso than anything Nintendo has done with Metroid in years. And Nintendo could've used this opportunity to cut a deal with the devs and make the game one of their own. But that's, of course, expecting a lot of fanservice out of Nintendo. And fanservice is a concept that seems very foreign to them.
How bout a new dang IP? GameCube had a good number of them in the launch window. Would be nice to see Nintendo spice things up a bit rather than rely on what's safe. Splatoon was one of the only games that did that this gen.
If Nintendo's marketing pitch is going to attempt to target smartphone users, then this console is going to have issues. I can't imagine any marketing pitch that would make a smartphone user (someone who already has a device that handles games, emails, texts, apps, alerts, etc.) want an entirely separate $250-$300 rectangle specifically for games.
I normally number myself among the most Nintendo-cynical, so I'm surprised to say I don't have a lot negative to say about these rumors. I think it's a smart move on their part to emphasize the portable, since that's where they've had the most success as of late. And I also think there's a niche third-party market out there that would be willing to adopt this. I mean, consider the fact that solid third party/indie games still release every week on the Vita (essentially an underpowered handheld PS3), and that console was largely abandoned by Sony years ago. I think this could have some legs if it's done right.
The "if it's done right" part is key though. It needs a seriously strong launch lineup if it's going to make the splash it needs to. The marketing needs to make sense. The "detachable controllers" idea needs to be well-implemented (so please don't gimp the number of buttons on each). I think if they can land these three punches, I don't think it's going to have any problem selling millions of units.
Bummer - Zelda U already looks dated on Wii U, despite the cool art style. Was really hoping the NX would give it the full resolution it deserved, but at a power level slightly above PS3, I don't see how that's possible.
I think it's an interesting idea that has a chance at success. Nintendo, for example, in making a portable that's cheaper to develop for, doesn't have to lure the same third parties that are making games for PS4 and Xbox One. They can instead engender their own Japanese-centric third party and indie support sort of like the Vita has, to ensure there's a steady stream of unique games coming out that aren't first party. The lack of power will definitely hurt Nintendo and will prevent most studios from jumping on board at launch, but they can still make a more niche collection of third parties work, as long as Nintendo doesn't police their content too hard.
Above all else, I think it's not the idea of the hardware, but the execution of it I'm most worried about. Will the controller have mini-control sticks a la the Vita but a little less fragile, or will we be stuck with the Circle Pad again? That wouldn't be the worst but it certainly makes games like Smash a little less enjoyable control-wise. Then, if the two ends of the controller detach to form smaller controllers, do those controllers still have shoulder buttons? Does each have a D-Pad and face buttons? How many? If one controller breaks, does the whole system need replacing? Can four players still play together on a TV? If so, how does that work?
I want to have excitement about this but there are still too many variables, including their software lineup. I'll reserve judgment until Nintendo reveals it.
It's totally useless man. It's like arguing at a wall with this guy; I've done it myself. The moment you say anything critical of Nintendo, you end up in an endless roundabout argument that no amount of logic can resolve. Best to just bury the hatchet and move on.
@Project_Dolphin
Guaranteed, if we were in some alternate universe, and the Last of Us were a Nintendo-developed exclusive, you'd be singing its praises.
@c1pher_c0mplet I think the non-gimmick console ship has sailed unfortunately. Nintendo has repeatedly said the NX is a new concept, and this interview doesn't do much to change that either. Plus there's a Just Dance coming out for it, so that implies some sort of motion control is involved.
IMO, Nintendo is going to need a hell of a launch lineup to convince me to invest in another Nintendo console at launch. I felt seriously burned by the Wii U.
Unless you're somebody with a serious nostalgia itch, I can't see much utility in this. You could buy a Wii for around the same price and actually choose the games you want, and from multiple platforms.
It would be one thing if this NES came with the 30 games and you could acquire more. A closed catalogue really limits the potential of this thing.
Back in the day, Nintendo also said the DS wouldn't replace the GBA, and would instead be a "third pillar." So I wouldn't put much stock in Nintendo's promises regarding platform support. It's pretty clear by this point that the NX will be the Wii U's successor.
@Anti-Matter I agree with you, and I was not implying everyone prefers smartphone games; I'm not even saying I prefer smartphone games. The mobile model is bad for developers and I would much, MUCH rather do console gaming. I'm saying that, to a parent who is not a gamer, letting kids play games on already-existing multimedia devices like smartphones is a far more attractive proposition than buying kids a dedicated, 300 dollar video game machine with expensive controllers, accessories, retail games, etc.
@JaxonH
I actually was referring to 1st party support. Not only were there tremendous months-long gaps where there was no retail software (not helped by a lack of 3rd parties), what did end up getting released on the system was largely predictable. More so than any other Nintendo console. There are great games on Wii U to be sure, but even the great ones are risk averse and formulaic. Consider the majority of first party exclusives:
Mario Kart 8
Super Smash Bros. Wii U
Super Mario 3D World
Wind Waker HD
Kirby and the Rainbow Curse
Yoshi's Woolly World
Twilight Princess HD
New Super Mario Bros. U
Pikmin 3
Mario Party 10
Mario Tennis Ultra Smash
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze
Star Fox Zero
Wii Sports Club
Wii Fit U
While many of these may be great games (and granted, there were a couple genuinely fresh, innovative entries - Splatoon and Mario Maker come to mind), most play it extraordinarily safe. If they're not remasters altogether, they're entries in pre-established formulas that do little to shake things up. Compare this to the GameCube's lineup, which saw the likes of Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Wind Waker, Starfox Adventures, Metroid Prime... Games that, if they weren't brand new IPs altogether, took risks with pre-existing IPs and were altogether innovative and fascinating. By comparison the Wii U lineup was significantly more boring. I get that Nintendo wanted to push hardware with familiar software. But the Wii U suffered from this more than any other mainline system, and this, coupled with the fact that retail games were overall few and far between, makes the NX a tough sell for me. That's just my personal stance on the matter.
I think the ship has mostly sailed in regards to kids gaming on consoles, at least as far as the casual market is concerned. My uncle and aunt have two kids kindergarten age, and they've been iPhone and iPad gaming for years. It's a hard sell for a family to get a dedicated game console with 60 dollar games these days, especially when there's a rectangular multimedia device in your pocket that does everything, and also has thousands of free games.
I'm a gamer (soon to be a parent myself) and I'm more likely to just game with my kids on the PS4 than get an entirely different console to scratch that itch. Whether our family owns the NX will depend on whether Nintendo proves to me that it's a good investment. Wii U-level support isn't going to cut it this time.
This doesn't spell out very good things concerning third party support for the NX. Cartridges are more expensive to manufacture, and that's extra cost that needs to be eaten by the publisher. It adds up when you're manufacturing millions of copies of a game.
I just can't wrap my mind around why Nintendo is making this decision. The additional manufacturing costs make cartridges seem like way more trouble than they're worth. But who knows, I hope I'm wrong.
@edgedino Something new would be interesting too. Me, I kind of want them to treat Shovel Knight like Mega Man, and just release a handful of similar sequels, then move on to Super Shovel Knight (16 bit version). Shovel Knight is just so damn good and I would love for them to revisit it as soon as possible.
@Project_Dolphin A lot of the "facts" you use to back up your claims are entirely based on assumption. I.e.,
"most gamers who play teen/mature video games are going to want time to play them. Thus, there is a huge incentive to simply have kids (if these gamers have kids) or casual gamers play video games on other platforms (mobile, tablets, laptops), freeing up more time for older gamers to play teen/mature video games on the PS4."
That's completely anecdotal and I'm not sure how that effectively backs up your point. Is that possible? Sure. Is it the case with every family? No. I'm going to be a gamer parent soon, and if I had to buy one console, I would buy one with the biggest variety of games so that I can not only play what I want to play, but my kids and wife can play too. So my anecdote runs counter to yours, and I'm not sure how yours proves anything more than mine.
I'm not sure how your personal assumption/preference, based on no facts, can be used to declare your debate opponent "wrong." You might want to rework your argument. Also:
"E-rated Wii video games outnumber teen or mature-rated Wii video games by four to one."
Got a source for that?
"Compare that to about a 50-50 mix of E-rated and teen or mature-rated PS3 video games."
How about for that one?
Even if the above statements are true, how is that indicative of the "variety" or "diversity" of options on the console? All you're describing is the ratio of E vs. T+ rated games. That does not indicate diversity in a console's lineup. It doesn't account for game genres at all. And it's also easily skewed by the scores of E-rated shovelware minigame collections on the Wii.
I don't even know what it is youre trying to argue anymore, just seems like you're being disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable.
Not relevant to what? Lol! I was talking about my perspective on the variety in Sony's lineup of games because that's something @electrolite77 touched on. Nowhere did I say that variety was the cause of Nintendo's console sales problems.
Your accusation of my point being irrelevant is actually the thing that's irrelevant.
I'm not really understanding what you're going on about. All I was pointing out is that there is a solid amount of variety on the types of games on Sony's platform. Reducing the selection to just teen/mature/sports games, while those may be the biggest focus on the platform, doesn't negate the fact that there is also a solid quantity of non-conventional games too that appeal to people outside those categories. And those non-conventional games are still profitable and successful, because Sony's platform has a large install base with relatively diverse tastes.
The same cannot be said of Nintendo, because even though Nintendo's install base is extremely devoted to first party software (the attach rate of MK8, for example, is astonishing), they have little interest in anything else.
Couldnt have said any of that better myself. Sony has far more to offer than "sports/mature" games. Seems like Nintendo fans peg them with that label constantly, but there's a ton more available than that. Journey, Tearaway, Ratchet and Clank, Minecraft: Story Mode, Rocket League, Rayman Legends, Infamous Second Son/First Light, Firewatch, Bastion, Guacamelee, Unravel, Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, the typical array of LEGO games, N Plus Plus, LittleBigPlanet, Sound Shapes, Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime, Plants v. Zombies GW2... That's not even to say anything of arcade titles like Resogun, Stardust, Assault Android Cactus, Amplitude, etc. or the array of Japanese-developed games - Catherine, Ni no Kuni, Tales of Zesteria, Transformers Devastation, The Last Guardian, Star Ocean, Valkyria Chronicles, Final Fantasy XV, etc.
The PS4 library is a lot more robust and diverse than a lot of Nintendo fans give them credit for. I would argue far more robust than what the Wii U ended up with.
So... You only like kid-friendly games that aren't "too western?" No wonder you were having a hard time finding anything to play. Your taste in games is about as narrow as can be.
"Nintendo would rather make a console like the Wii: a console that is supported by third-parties (and before someone complains about "shovelware", understand that many gamers bought that "shovelware", and third-party developers were able to achieve software sales success on the Wii) and is also primarily known for Nintendo software."
That's quite the utopia you're envisioning, but the reality is that the type of success Nintendo had with the Wii is near-impossible in today's market. 2017 will be a very different gaming environment than 2006. The Wii launched at a time where there were no smartphones, and thereby no real outlet for a casual audience to play games. Now casual gamers have fled and predominantly game on smartphones now, where it's normal to pay next to nothing for their games, where you can not only play games, but text, email, browse the internet, etc.
Do you really anticipate that this market, who is used to getting their games for 0-2 dollars at most, is going to, out of nowhere, shell out 200+ dollars for a dedicated game machine? That's a pipe dream if I've ever heard one, especially with Nintendo developing smartphone games now. If the average consumer can get Nintendo games on their smartphone for free, why bother paying hundreds for a console?
The casual market has moved on and Nintendo ought to know that. Just look at the Wii U, a device that was equipped to recapture that market. It had the Wii name, it worked with the Wii Remotes people already had, it had a big stupid tablet gimmick, and it was a lower price than its competing consoles. It sold pitifully (and not just because of poor marketing, although that didn't help). It's because they were chasing an audience that had already put their Wiis away in a closet years before the Wii U came out. They didn't care anymore.
So then, who is the NX's target audience? That is, if Reggie's/Nintendo's comments are indicative of it being yet another underpowered console shackled to a gimmick? It's not casual gamers for the aforementioned reasons. Is it hardcore gamers? Clearly it's not; it's become pretty clear after the Wii U that the majority of hardcore gamers are not interested in a low-spec console that only plays Nintendo games. Winning back the people Nintendo has lost to Microsoft and Sony would require a console that is competitive in specs, has a solid amount of third party support, and avoids hardware gimmicks. All things Nintendo's recent comments have directed us away from.
So if it's not targeting the casual audience, and it's not targeting the general hardcore gaming audience, yet again we're left with a console targeted at a dwindling hardcore Nintendo fanbase, and yet again Nintendo will have a hard time selling units, and yet again third parties will consider Nintendo's machine an afterthought. Your proposition of a utopia where Nintendo releases another low-spec, gimmick console and is still able to get ample first and third party support is practically impossible; I don't see any scenario where the NX could be successful in today's landscape, not if Reggie's remarks are foreshadowing anything.
Reggie's comments are the most alarming thing about Nintendo's E3 showing, enough to derail my excitement for Zelda. As much as I really do want that game, it is enormously frustrating to think Nintendo hasn't learned anything from the Wii U, and are again bent on putting out an underpowered system that they alone will support.
Can't even remotely imagine this console doing well if this is their design philosophy. Nintendo fans (at least fans that are willing to shell out another 200-400 dollars for a Nintendo-only console) are disappearing at a faster rate than ever, and another underpowered, different-for-the-sake-of-being-different console is just going to sever the last of the ties Nintendo has with its fans.
You can't flip off your fanbase over and over and expect them to keep running back to you. Eventually even the most devoted ones are going to catch on.
Zelda looked interesting, but how are people saying Nintendo's showing came even close to rivaling Sony's? You know what I saw at Sony/Microsoft's conferences? Lots and lots of great games. I saw one at Nintendo's booth. Nintendo fans like to rave about "quality over quantity," but it looks a lot like their competitors have both. And only one of Nintendo's upcoming games looks like it has "quality" going for it at all.
@ThanosReXXX Thanks for the rationale! I did not intend to communicate that people who disagreed with me were stupid or backwards. I merely was trying to express my own opinion that reverting to cartridges would be a very shortsighted choice for Nintendo, a company that needs to win back the graces of third parties, not neglectfully push them away by choosing an uncommon, expensive format for the sake of being "different."
As far as the digital argument, I own a mixture of physical and digital games, so I'm part of the problem too - really what I was trying to express is that there is a gridlock going on that prevents digital games from being a reasonable alternative to physical in the console space. Consumers don't buy digital very much so there's little impetus to go all-digital, and retailers have a fair amount of power in the equation that prevents that from happening too.
And I also understand the need for longevity in games too; the problem is that with most games coming out being so intimately tied to the Internet, games are pretty much temporary on arrival anyway. The 2015 Need for Speed, for example, is only as playable as its servers are functioning. The moment EA pulls the plug on the game's servers, the entire game is useless. Or the moment Infinity Ward/Activision decides to pull the plug on Call of Duty 4's servers, a huge chunk of that game will suddenly be missing. It's the unfortunate nature of games now that parts of them will only be usable for so long. And if this is the case, digital game downloads would be far from the worst thing to happen to longevity of games. In fact, it can even improve a game's longevity because it can digitally preserve games that would otherwise be lost. Even NES and GB cartridges are slowly becoming more unusable thanks to expiring batteries in the carts. But thanks to emulation and the digitization of those games, they are still fully playable.
@freaksloan Digital would be cheaper if people were willing to let go of their obsession with physical copies of games. Just look at Steam. The digital storefront and the lack of manufacturing costs allows Valve to offer games at extremely low prices. It's a fact that digital games are cheaper to make, so they can be sold for cheaper prices.
There are a lot of reasons console manufacturers have yet to follow suit, and it's a more tangled web than we realize. It's partially because we refuse to let a robust digital storefront emerge. Physical retail still accounts for a huge portion of console game sales. We stubbornly will not let go of buying disc-based games, so publishers still have to cover the excessive costs of printing millions of physical copies, and they also have to cover the potential profit loss they endure from people buying games second-hand. If people just sucked it up and bought digital games over physical ones, then prices per game would drop significantly, and publishers could offer more significant and frequent discounts. Steam is a good example of a marketplace where this is the case.
You could also say it's because retailers like Walmart, Best Buy, etc. profit from physical game sales and can strong-arm the console manufacturers/publishers. Think about it: what's the one thing you always have to buy physically, no matter what? The console. If Sony were to come out and say, "We're going all digital from now on," Wal-Mart could just as easily say, "Oh, you're going to cut into our profits? Well then we want a bigger portion of your console revenue, or we're not going to sell your console at all."
You see what I'm saying? Digital storefronts on consoles are not ideal right now (though they're getting significantly better with flash sales and the like), but digital is obviously cheaper and would allow games to drop significantly in price.
Are you kidding me? This would be an astronomically stupid idea. Can't believe no one has pointed out the obvious: Cartridges may be faster, but they would be bad news for third party support on NX. Do you really expect publishers to jump at the opportunity to spend millions more manufacturing cartridges instead of discs? Not to mention the 32GB limit, which automatically disqualifies some AAA games from fitting onto a cartridge at all (Witcher 3, GTA, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc). This would require the publisher to make a patch available to fill in the rest of the data, essentially making the cartridge version of the game unplayable without a 10-18GB patch. Sure, we do see day one patches for disc-based games, but the space limit on cartridges would require those patches to be way larger, and different in content from patches you would get on PS4 and Xbox One. That's more time and money just to get the game up and running on a Nintendo platform.
Taken together, it's asking a LOT from third party developers to get them to develop for cartridges. It requires more money, development time, and manpower, which is more than third parties would likely be willing to invest after being burned so badly by Nintendo and its fans in the past. It's just more of Nintendo doing what they've done for the last two decades: forcing developers to jump through hoops to get games running on their system, for no other reason than because they want to be "different." Carts were terrible for third parties in the N64's day, and they would be pretty terrible now.
Nintendo is going to be very easily overshadowed this E3. Honestly, if all they're showing is Zelda, they might as well have not even showed up. Zelda's not the type of game I want Nintendo's Treehouse to beat to death for three days. I want to discover the secrets of that game myself, not have people dissecting every part of it to the point where I'm tired of even seeing it.
If Nintendo wanted to save face, they could've just said, "You know what guys? We've decided to take this E3 off. We won't be discussing our 2016 games at E3 and we'll share more about those with you in a Direct later this year. BUT we'd like to invite you to tune in this fall/winter to our own NX launch conference. Then you can learn more about the amazing stuff we've got in store for 2017 and beyond."
Boom. That would've been easily forgivable and would've given their fans something to look forward to later. But nope, they're just going to roll up with Zelda at E3 and nothing else, a game that isn't even going to launch until next year, showcasing how utterly vacant the Wii U's final months will be. They're easily going to be embarrassed by their competitors, and it doesn't matter how effing good Zelda is, they will fade into irrelevance at the conference when their competition has way more stuff to show off.
You're right, spring is not optimal and it's not impossible to sell units. But it's also not enough to rely on hardcore fans and "tech geeks" to be the only early adopters in March. For one, the number of hardcore Nintendo fans (and ESPECIALLY the number of fans who would adopt early after the flaming garbage heap of a launch the Wii U had) are dwindling in number by the day. Not to mention, I doubt tech geeks and Nintendo fans overlap too much. We are, after all, talking about a company who has been behind on the latest tech for a decade.
The fact that you mentioned Nintendo could just use the early launch to "iron out the kinks" is all the more reason early adopters will have little reason to pick up the next Nintendo console at launch.
And finally, I can't possibly count on Nintendo to have a "media blitz" in the late fall, because they completely failed to use media to properly advertise the Wii U, and their lack of presence at this year's E3 shows that they still don't really know how to give the NX a proper, widespread introduction.
It is all speculation, though. We'll see what happens, but these first moves don't instill much confidence in me.
1) Man Nintendo is so smart. I mean, why would they show off their next console at the biggest gaming conference of the year? That would be way too much attention! It's much safer to phone in a video about the last 2 or 3 Wii U and 3DS games and ignore that the new console even exists. Talking about the new console would be way too much pressure, and Reggie's poor heart just couldn't take it. I mean, what if they show the NX and get criticized for it? Then they'll look like a bunch of stupid baboons and their feelings would be hurt!
2) Also, since they're not showing off the NX, then they probably shouldn't show off any NX games. In fact, while they're at it, why should they show any games at all? They should only show Zelda. Surely everyone will like Nintendo if they show Zelda and nothing else! That will give people boatloads more confidence in the variety and diversity in their upcoming lineup: showing a game that isn't even due out this year!
3) Oh, and a March launch! What a novel idea! Glad Nintendo has the cojones to do different things from everyone else, even when it makes no sense. I mean, who would want to capitalize on the holiday sales like every other console manufacturer? It's much more innovative to shoot for a March release date, when people are recovering from holiday spending and aren't interested in paying for a 300-400 dollar device!
I jest, but in all seriousness, this thing hasn't even been revealed yet and Nintendo is already making unorthodox, illogical decisions with it. Probably not a good sign.
@Project_Dolphin The experiences available on Xbox resonated with me more than what Nintendo seemed to have planned for the next year-plus, so I just switched to something I would use and enjoy more.
@hYdeks Nintendo also promised that the DS would be a "third pillar" alongside the GCN and GBA, but then Nintendo promptly dropped all support of the Game Boy Advance in favor of the DS. I would take Nintendo's promises of platform support with a grain of salt.
You're also neglecting the fact that the Wii was an entirely different beast from the Wii U. The Wii sold extraordinarily well, while the Wii U is sputtering out at about 13 million; the worst selling console in their history. It makes sense for Nintendo to pull the plug early. Is the report true? We don't know yet. But it's not ridiculous to suspect it may be.
@amiiboacid I'm not a JRPG fan and the first Xenoblade Chronicles didn't do anything for me, so XCX wasn't even on my radar. Was way more tempted by Super Mario Maker than Xenoblade.
@amiiboacid I will admit, I got a teensy bit envious when Mario Maker came out, but it didn't affect me too much. Still felt I made the right decision in selling.
Bought my Wii U at launch and was super excited for it. Great games were extremely few and far between, but I enjoyed them when they did come out. But then the games stopped coming, my Wii U gathered dust on my shelf for months, and I eventually sold my Wii U for an Xbox One after Nintendo's sh***y Direct last year. I saw the writing on the wall then and it looks like I was right to move on. Haven't regretted it since (got a little envious when Mario Maker came out, but that dissipated pretty quick), and I especially don't regret it now.
One thing's for sure: that was the last time I'll be an early adopter of a Nintendo console. Depending on what the NX is, it might've been the last time I'll buy a Nintendo console period.
If that controller turns out to be real, I'll probably use my money on PSVR instead this holiday, and say goodbye to my Nintendo fandom. That controller/handheld, real or not, looks like a total laughingstock. Here's hoping it's fake!
Lol I imagine this is fake. But if it turns out to be real, and Nintendo is just making funny looking controllers for the hell of it, I think I'll spend my money on PSVR instead and kiss my Nintendo fandom goodbye.
As a PS4 owner and lapsed Nintendo fan, I genuinely don't know which one is going to get my money this year (assuming the rumors are true and NX is hitting this year). I am leaning PSVR over NX, because IMO Nintendo has done nothing to prove they're not the same out of touch company that sold me a Wii U.
While I do hope Nintendo has learned from the Wii U and wins me back with the NX, PSVR is an entirely new experience with already pretty significant studio backing, and it's a tempting offer at $399. Nintendo has a lot to prove. To me, at least.
@Project_Dolphin Well I'm glad that at the very least, you have given feedback about what I was initially arguing in the first place.
You are correct, fan reactions to games do not determine whether the games in question will be mediocre or not. There is no guarantee Color Splash is going to be mediocre, or that it's going to be good. Same with Federation Force. It could pleasantly surprise, or it can thoroughly disappoint. However, the fact that PMCS utilizes the mechanics of the worst game in the series gives reason to doubt its quality compared to other entries in the series. It's not totally unreasonable to have doubts about any game Nintendo has on the horizon based on the gameplay footage they show. Is it possible Color Splash could genuinely impress and prove me wrong? Of course. But the last couple times there was game footage that looked like it was bad, it turned out to actually be bad (Mario Tennis, Amiibo Festival).
It's all filler, because it's increasingly obvious that Nintendo has moved all of their AAA dev teams to the NX, leaving only B and C teams developing on the Wii U. It's why we've seen nothing from Zelda since its delay, and it's why we've seen nothing in the way of Retro, the mainline Mario studio, etc. in years. We're stuck in the space in between.
So I suppose Nintendo's drop in consistency when it comes to game quality lately (and you can't argue they haven't at least been inconsistent, with games as good as Mario Maker and as average as Paper Jam and as abysmal as Mario Tennis) is because at this point they're practically churning out side projects in anticipation for the NX. At best it buys them some time while their best studios can do their thing; at worst it provides the Wii U with some pitiful swan songs.
@Project_Dolphin That's a straw man argument if I've ever seen one. Sales are obviously not 100% directly linked to the quality of something. I'm saying sales can be extraordinarily reflective of industry attitudes. Which they certainly can be, and often times are. You can use sales of games and hardware to illustrate industry trends and what audiences find value in. Clearly fewer and fewer people are finding value in Nintendo hardware based on the sales data.
Does that in and of itself mean Nintendo's game quality is dropping? No. But I can look at tons of other tangible examples (including reviews) to express my concerns about the direction of the company. Those concerns are based on the three things I've literally been listing this whole time: fewer innovative titles, misreading/ambivalence to their fans when it comes to the development of titles, and several poorly reviewed duds of games that have come out in the last year. Those are the three things I'm basing this entire argument on, and I feel there is plenty of evidence that suggests those issues are, in fact, real. If we're going to keep arguing about how one determines the "goodness" of games, we've moved to a totally different argument entirely.
The problem is that it's not a fallacious argument. You failed to explain how sales trends don't reflect industry attitudes. Because they do. Not totally and completely on their own, but they sure help. You said,
"Sales only show the willingness of gamers to buy Nintendo video games..."
Here you openly state that sales show the willingness of gamers to buy Nintendo games. And I agree with you. So how are dwindling sales irrelevant to the attitude of the market? If an increasing number of gamers are refusing to buy Nintendo games, it clearly shows that the general gaming audience is losing interest in Nintendo games. It clearly shows Nintendo's games have less resonance and relevance with the modern hardcore gaming market than in prior generations.
The widespread gaming audience is flocking to other consoles because their games and offerings are more appealing to them than Nintendo's. Not sure how you're failing to see the relevance there. Console sales are a pretty good indication of where your "other gamers in general" are predominantly choosing to play. And it's increasingly not on a Nintendo ecosystem.
"Other gamers in general" meaning who? Because based on the declining sales of Nintendo consoles (with the exception of the Wii, which was a fluke that captured a fickle casual audience), and based on the quantity of purchases gamers are making from Nintendo's competitors by comparison, it's pretty clear "other gamers in general" are not as in love with Nintendo games as they used to be.
But it's all good man, If you don't think any of the premises of my claim are true, there's no way I'm going to convince you. We'll see how this generation is remembered and we'll see who turns out to be right!
You're right in that this debate has gotten way off track. My original point to begin with is that (based on a string of dud games with little content, a string of games that are either misreads or otherwise totally neglectful of what the audience wants, and a series of games that do little to challenge expectations) Nintendo has given us ample reason to question the idea that they're the same quality developer/publisher they used to be. Not sure how anyone can question that unless they disagree with the premises.
@Project_Dolphin To deem reviews (professional or otherwise) as the be-all end-all determination of the audience's collective opinion is fairly shortsighted. Message boards and opinion pieces are still valid contributions to that. And so are sales, because they give an objective, factual representation of how many people will shell out for a product a company makes. If Nintendo makes a product and it sells poorly, then it's obviously because the audience does not want what they're selling.
The Wii U is the worst-selling mainline home console in Nintendo's storied history. If people really were clamoring to play Nintendo's Wii U games, don't you think more people would own Wii Us? Instead what I'm seeing is a pretty serious growth in customers who are disenfranchised with what present-day Nintendo is putting out. Sales may not say much about a game's quality, but they sure do say something about whether a product looks appealing enough to the market to warrant a purchase.
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Re: Nintendo Issues Takedown Notices for Impressive Fan-Made Metroid II Remake, AM2R
Well I'm super glad I saw this coming a mile away and managed to get to it before the takedowns. Obviously Nintendo has a right to safeguard their IP. Any dev trying to make a game with one of Nintendo's properties might as well count that project dead on arrival.
That said, this was clearly a labor of love. Moreso than anything Nintendo has done with Metroid in years. And Nintendo could've used this opportunity to cut a deal with the devs and make the game one of their own. But that's, of course, expecting a lot of fanservice out of Nintendo. And fanservice is a concept that seems very foreign to them.
Re: Poll: Which Nintendo NX Games Do You Want to See in the Launch Window?
How bout a new dang IP? GameCube had a good number of them in the launch window. Would be nice to see Nintendo spice things up a bit rather than rely on what's safe. Splatoon was one of the only games that did that this gen.
Re: Sources Suggest That Pokémon and Mario Will Arrive on Nintendo NX in First Six Months
If Nintendo's marketing pitch is going to attempt to target smartphone users, then this console is going to have issues. I can't imagine any marketing pitch that would make a smartphone user (someone who already has a device that handles games, emails, texts, apps, alerts, etc.) want an entirely separate $250-$300 rectangle specifically for games.
Re: Nintendo Continues to Promote Evergreen 3DS Titles With the 'Summer Gaming List'
Pretty dumb infographic. Lol
Re: Talking Point: Considering the Angles of a Portable and Dynamic Nintendo NX
I normally number myself among the most Nintendo-cynical, so I'm surprised to say I don't have a lot negative to say about these rumors. I think it's a smart move on their part to emphasize the portable, since that's where they've had the most success as of late. And I also think there's a niche third-party market out there that would be willing to adopt this. I mean, consider the fact that solid third party/indie games still release every week on the Vita (essentially an underpowered handheld PS3), and that console was largely abandoned by Sony years ago. I think this could have some legs if it's done right.
The "if it's done right" part is key though. It needs a seriously strong launch lineup if it's going to make the splash it needs to. The marketing needs to make sense. The "detachable controllers" idea needs to be well-implemented (so please don't gimp the number of buttons on each). I think if they can land these three punches, I don't think it's going to have any problem selling millions of units.
Re: Multiple Sources Outline a Portable NX With Detachable Controllers, Including a 'Base Station' for TV
Bummer - Zelda U already looks dated on Wii U, despite the cool art style. Was really hoping the NX would give it the full resolution it deserved, but at a power level slightly above PS3, I don't see how that's possible.
I think it's an interesting idea that has a chance at success. Nintendo, for example, in making a portable that's cheaper to develop for, doesn't have to lure the same third parties that are making games for PS4 and Xbox One. They can instead engender their own Japanese-centric third party and indie support sort of like the Vita has, to ensure there's a steady stream of unique games coming out that aren't first party. The lack of power will definitely hurt Nintendo and will prevent most studios from jumping on board at launch, but they can still make a more niche collection of third parties work, as long as Nintendo doesn't police their content too hard.
Above all else, I think it's not the idea of the hardware, but the execution of it I'm most worried about. Will the controller have mini-control sticks a la the Vita but a little less fragile, or will we be stuck with the Circle Pad again? That wouldn't be the worst but it certainly makes games like Smash a little less enjoyable control-wise. Then, if the two ends of the controller detach to form smaller controllers, do those controllers still have shoulder buttons? Does each have a D-Pad and face buttons? How many? If one controller breaks, does the whole system need replacing? Can four players still play together on a TV? If so, how does that work?
I want to have excitement about this but there are still too many variables, including their software lineup. I'll reserve judgment until Nintendo reveals it.
Re: Ubisoft CEO Says Nintendo NX Will Help Grow The Industry And Pull In Casual Players
@Project_Dolphin
Not even remotely hurt, actually. Just pointing out your bias.
Anyway, peace out.
Re: Ubisoft CEO Says Nintendo NX Will Help Grow The Industry And Pull In Casual Players
@Kirk
It's totally useless man. It's like arguing at a wall with this guy; I've done it myself. The moment you say anything critical of Nintendo, you end up in an endless roundabout argument that no amount of logic can resolve. Best to just bury the hatchet and move on.
@Project_Dolphin
Guaranteed, if we were in some alternate universe, and the Last of Us were a Nintendo-developed exclusive, you'd be singing its praises.
Re: Hands On: Painting a Clearer Picture of Paper Mario: Color Splash
"Paper Mario: Color Splash... Is a game for somebody."
Lol! Not the most ringing endorsement in the world.
Re: Nintendo Reconfirms March 2017 NX Launch And Quality Of Life Concept Development
"We're still launching the NX and we're still doing Quality of Life stuff. So basically nothing is changing."
And this is newsworthy how?
Re: Ubisoft CEO Says Nintendo NX Will Help Grow The Industry And Pull In Casual Players
@Project_Dolphin "The Last of Us is a bad movie masquerading as a video game."
You lost me there.
Re: Ubisoft CEO Says Nintendo NX Will Help Grow The Industry And Pull In Casual Players
@c1pher_c0mplet I think the non-gimmick console ship has sailed unfortunately. Nintendo has repeatedly said the NX is a new concept, and this interview doesn't do much to change that either. Plus there's a Just Dance coming out for it, so that implies some sort of motion control is involved.
IMO, Nintendo is going to need a hell of a launch lineup to convince me to invest in another Nintendo console at launch. I felt seriously burned by the Wii U.
Re: New NES Mini Console Won't Get More Games, Cartridge Slot To Remain Shut For All Eternity
Unless you're somebody with a serious nostalgia itch, I can't see much utility in this. You could buy a Wii for around the same price and actually choose the games you want, and from multiple platforms.
It would be one thing if this NES came with the 30 games and you could acquire more. A closed catalogue really limits the potential of this thing.
Re: Nintendo Believes Nintendo NX, Pokémon and Smart Device Games Can Deliver Promised Profits
@Dave24
"they said NX won't replace Wii U"
Back in the day, Nintendo also said the DS wouldn't replace the GBA, and would instead be a "third pillar." So I wouldn't put much stock in Nintendo's promises regarding platform support. It's pretty clear by this point that the NX will be the Wii U's successor.
Re: DFC Intelligence Believes the Nintendo NX Could Target "Lost Console Generation" of Young Gamers
@Anti-Matter I agree with you, and I was not implying everyone prefers smartphone games; I'm not even saying I prefer smartphone games. The mobile model is bad for developers and I would much, MUCH rather do console gaming. I'm saying that, to a parent who is not a gamer, letting kids play games on already-existing multimedia devices like smartphones is a far more attractive proposition than buying kids a dedicated, 300 dollar video game machine with expensive controllers, accessories, retail games, etc.
@JaxonH
I actually was referring to 1st party support. Not only were there tremendous months-long gaps where there was no retail software (not helped by a lack of 3rd parties), what did end up getting released on the system was largely predictable. More so than any other Nintendo console. There are great games on Wii U to be sure, but even the great ones are risk averse and formulaic. Consider the majority of first party exclusives:
Mario Kart 8
Super Smash Bros. Wii U
Super Mario 3D World
Wind Waker HD
Kirby and the Rainbow Curse
Yoshi's Woolly World
Twilight Princess HD
New Super Mario Bros. U
Pikmin 3
Mario Party 10
Mario Tennis Ultra Smash
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze
Star Fox Zero
Wii Sports Club
Wii Fit U
While many of these may be great games (and granted, there were a couple genuinely fresh, innovative entries - Splatoon and Mario Maker come to mind), most play it extraordinarily safe. If they're not remasters altogether, they're entries in pre-established formulas that do little to shake things up. Compare this to the GameCube's lineup, which saw the likes of Sunshine, Luigi's Mansion, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Wind Waker, Starfox Adventures, Metroid Prime... Games that, if they weren't brand new IPs altogether, took risks with pre-existing IPs and were altogether innovative and fascinating. By comparison the Wii U lineup was significantly more boring. I get that Nintendo wanted to push hardware with familiar software. But the Wii U suffered from this more than any other mainline system, and this, coupled with the fact that retail games were overall few and far between, makes the NX a tough sell for me. That's just my personal stance on the matter.
Re: DFC Intelligence Believes the Nintendo NX Could Target "Lost Console Generation" of Young Gamers
I think the ship has mostly sailed in regards to kids gaming on consoles, at least as far as the casual market is concerned. My uncle and aunt have two kids kindergarten age, and they've been iPhone and iPad gaming for years. It's a hard sell for a family to get a dedicated game console with 60 dollar games these days, especially when there's a rectangular multimedia device in your pocket that does everything, and also has thousands of free games.
I'm a gamer (soon to be a parent myself) and I'm more likely to just game with my kids on the PS4 than get an entirely different console to scratch that itch. Whether our family owns the NX will depend on whether Nintendo proves to me that it's a good investment. Wii U-level support isn't going to cut it this time.
Re: Trademark Listing Adds Fuel to Talk of Nintendo NX Using Cartridges
This doesn't spell out very good things concerning third party support for the NX. Cartridges are more expensive to manufacture, and that's extra cost that needs to be eaten by the publisher. It adds up when you're manufacturing millions of copies of a game.
I just can't wrap my mind around why Nintendo is making this decision. The additional manufacturing costs make cartridges seem like way more trouble than they're worth. But who knows, I hope I'm wrong.
Re: Yacht Club Games Provides Update on Future Campaigns and Content
@edgedino Something new would be interesting too. Me, I kind of want them to treat Shovel Knight like Mega Man, and just release a handful of similar sequels, then move on to Super Shovel Knight (16 bit version). Shovel Knight is just so damn good and I would love for them to revisit it as soon as possible.
Re: Yacht Club Games Provides Update on Future Campaigns and Content
Good. Knock out the rest of the DLC and get to work on a sequel. What I would give for a Shovel Knight II...
Re: Witcher Studio Says Nintendo NX "Will Be Fantastic", Claims To "Know Things"
@Haru17 Doubtful.
Re: Nintendo Outlines Key Goals to Ensure NX Success
@Project_Dolphin A lot of the "facts" you use to back up your claims are entirely based on assumption. I.e.,
"most gamers who play teen/mature video games are going to want time to play them. Thus, there is a huge incentive to simply have kids (if these gamers have kids) or casual gamers play video games on other platforms (mobile, tablets, laptops), freeing up more time for older gamers to play teen/mature video games on the PS4."
That's completely anecdotal and I'm not sure how that effectively backs up your point. Is that possible? Sure. Is it the case with every family? No. I'm going to be a gamer parent soon, and if I had to buy one console, I would buy one with the biggest variety of games so that I can not only play what I want to play, but my kids and wife can play too. So my anecdote runs counter to yours, and I'm not sure how yours proves anything more than mine.
I'm not sure how your personal assumption/preference, based on no facts, can be used to declare your debate opponent "wrong." You might want to rework your argument. Also:
"E-rated Wii video games outnumber teen or mature-rated Wii video games by four to one."
Got a source for that?
"Compare that to about a 50-50 mix of E-rated and teen or mature-rated PS3 video games."
How about for that one?
Even if the above statements are true, how is that indicative of the "variety" or "diversity" of options on the console? All you're describing is the ratio of E vs. T+ rated games. That does not indicate diversity in a console's lineup. It doesn't account for game genres at all. And it's also easily skewed by the scores of E-rated shovelware minigame collections on the Wii.
I don't even know what it is youre trying to argue anymore, just seems like you're being disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable.
Re: Nintendo Outlines Key Goals to Ensure NX Success
@Project_Dolphin
Not relevant to what? Lol! I was talking about my perspective on the variety in Sony's lineup of games because that's something @electrolite77 touched on. Nowhere did I say that variety was the cause of Nintendo's console sales problems.
Your accusation of my point being irrelevant is actually the thing that's irrelevant.
Re: Nintendo Outlines Key Goals to Ensure NX Success
@Project_Dolphin
I'm not really understanding what you're going on about. All I was pointing out is that there is a solid amount of variety on the types of games on Sony's platform. Reducing the selection to just teen/mature/sports games, while those may be the biggest focus on the platform, doesn't negate the fact that there is also a solid quantity of non-conventional games too that appeal to people outside those categories. And those non-conventional games are still profitable and successful, because Sony's platform has a large install base with relatively diverse tastes.
The same cannot be said of Nintendo, because even though Nintendo's install base is extremely devoted to first party software (the attach rate of MK8, for example, is astonishing), they have little interest in anything else.
Re: Nintendo Outlines Key Goals to Ensure NX Success
@electrolite
Couldnt have said any of that better myself. Sony has far more to offer than "sports/mature" games. Seems like Nintendo fans peg them with that label constantly, but there's a ton more available than that. Journey, Tearaway, Ratchet and Clank, Minecraft: Story Mode, Rocket League, Rayman Legends, Infamous Second Son/First Light, Firewatch, Bastion, Guacamelee, Unravel, Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, the typical array of LEGO games, N Plus Plus, LittleBigPlanet, Sound Shapes, Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime, Plants v. Zombies GW2... That's not even to say anything of arcade titles like Resogun, Stardust, Assault Android Cactus, Amplitude, etc. or the array of Japanese-developed games - Catherine, Ni no Kuni, Tales of Zesteria, Transformers Devastation, The Last Guardian, Star Ocean, Valkyria Chronicles, Final Fantasy XV, etc.
The PS4 library is a lot more robust and diverse than a lot of Nintendo fans give them credit for. I would argue far more robust than what the Wii U ended up with.
Re: Nintendo Outlines Key Goals to Ensure NX Success
@Anti-Matter
So... You only like kid-friendly games that aren't "too western?" No wonder you were having a hard time finding anything to play. Your taste in games is about as narrow as can be.
Re: Editorial: Nintendo Did A Solid Job at E3 2016, But That Didn't Ease Long-Term Concerns
@Project_Dolphin
"Nintendo would rather make a console like the Wii: a console that is supported by third-parties (and before someone complains about "shovelware", understand that many gamers bought that "shovelware", and third-party developers were able to achieve software sales success on the Wii) and is also primarily known for Nintendo software."
That's quite the utopia you're envisioning, but the reality is that the type of success Nintendo had with the Wii is near-impossible in today's market. 2017 will be a very different gaming environment than 2006. The Wii launched at a time where there were no smartphones, and thereby no real outlet for a casual audience to play games. Now casual gamers have fled and predominantly game on smartphones now, where it's normal to pay next to nothing for their games, where you can not only play games, but text, email, browse the internet, etc.
Do you really anticipate that this market, who is used to getting their games for 0-2 dollars at most, is going to, out of nowhere, shell out 200+ dollars for a dedicated game machine? That's a pipe dream if I've ever heard one, especially with Nintendo developing smartphone games now. If the average consumer can get Nintendo games on their smartphone for free, why bother paying hundreds for a console?
The casual market has moved on and Nintendo ought to know that. Just look at the Wii U, a device that was equipped to recapture that market. It had the Wii name, it worked with the Wii Remotes people already had, it had a big stupid tablet gimmick, and it was a lower price than its competing consoles. It sold pitifully (and not just because of poor marketing, although that didn't help). It's because they were chasing an audience that had already put their Wiis away in a closet years before the Wii U came out. They didn't care anymore.
So then, who is the NX's target audience? That is, if Reggie's/Nintendo's comments are indicative of it being yet another underpowered console shackled to a gimmick? It's not casual gamers for the aforementioned reasons. Is it hardcore gamers? Clearly it's not; it's become pretty clear after the Wii U that the majority of hardcore gamers are not interested in a low-spec console that only plays Nintendo games. Winning back the people Nintendo has lost to Microsoft and Sony would require a console that is competitive in specs, has a solid amount of third party support, and avoids hardware gimmicks. All things Nintendo's recent comments have directed us away from.
So if it's not targeting the casual audience, and it's not targeting the general hardcore gaming audience, yet again we're left with a console targeted at a dwindling hardcore Nintendo fanbase, and yet again Nintendo will have a hard time selling units, and yet again third parties will consider Nintendo's machine an afterthought. Your proposition of a utopia where Nintendo releases another low-spec, gimmick console and is still able to get ample first and third party support is practically impossible; I don't see any scenario where the NX could be successful in today's landscape, not if Reggie's remarks are foreshadowing anything.
Re: Editorial: Nintendo Did A Solid Job at E3 2016, But That Didn't Ease Long-Term Concerns
Reggie's comments are the most alarming thing about Nintendo's E3 showing, enough to derail my excitement for Zelda. As much as I really do want that game, it is enormously frustrating to think Nintendo hasn't learned anything from the Wii U, and are again bent on putting out an underpowered system that they alone will support.
Can't even remotely imagine this console doing well if this is their design philosophy. Nintendo fans (at least fans that are willing to shell out another 200-400 dollars for a Nintendo-only console) are disappearing at a faster rate than ever, and another underpowered, different-for-the-sake-of-being-different console is just going to sever the last of the ties Nintendo has with its fans.
You can't flip off your fanbase over and over and expect them to keep running back to you. Eventually even the most devoted ones are going to catch on.
Re: Poll: What Did You Think of Nintendo's E3 2016?
@Syrek24 I wouldn't call Mario Party a game that has "mass appeal." Lol
Re: Poll: What Did You Think of Nintendo's E3 2016?
Zelda looked interesting, but how are people saying Nintendo's showing came even close to rivaling Sony's? You know what I saw at Sony/Microsoft's conferences? Lots and lots of great games. I saw one at Nintendo's booth. Nintendo fans like to rave about "quality over quantity," but it looks a lot like their competitors have both. And only one of Nintendo's upcoming games looks like it has "quality" going for it at all.
What a total disappointment.
Re: Reaction: The NX Could Benefit from Using Cartridges Instead of Discs
@ThanosReXXX Thanks for the rationale! I did not intend to communicate that people who disagreed with me were stupid or backwards. I merely was trying to express my own opinion that reverting to cartridges would be a very shortsighted choice for Nintendo, a company that needs to win back the graces of third parties, not neglectfully push them away by choosing an uncommon, expensive format for the sake of being "different."
As far as the digital argument, I own a mixture of physical and digital games, so I'm part of the problem too - really what I was trying to express is that there is a gridlock going on that prevents digital games from being a reasonable alternative to physical in the console space. Consumers don't buy digital very much so there's little impetus to go all-digital, and retailers have a fair amount of power in the equation that prevents that from happening too.
And I also understand the need for longevity in games too; the problem is that with most games coming out being so intimately tied to the Internet, games are pretty much temporary on arrival anyway. The 2015 Need for Speed, for example, is only as playable as its servers are functioning. The moment EA pulls the plug on the game's servers, the entire game is useless. Or the moment Infinity Ward/Activision decides to pull the plug on Call of Duty 4's servers, a huge chunk of that game will suddenly be missing. It's the unfortunate nature of games now that parts of them will only be usable for so long. And if this is the case, digital game downloads would be far from the worst thing to happen to longevity of games. In fact, it can even improve a game's longevity because it can digitally preserve games that would otherwise be lost. Even NES and GB cartridges are slowly becoming more unusable thanks to expiring batteries in the carts. But thanks to emulation and the digitization of those games, they are still fully playable.
Re: Reaction: The NX Could Benefit from Using Cartridges Instead of Discs
@freaksloan Digital would be cheaper if people were willing to let go of their obsession with physical copies of games. Just look at Steam. The digital storefront and the lack of manufacturing costs allows Valve to offer games at extremely low prices. It's a fact that digital games are cheaper to make, so they can be sold for cheaper prices.
There are a lot of reasons console manufacturers have yet to follow suit, and it's a more tangled web than we realize. It's partially because we refuse to let a robust digital storefront emerge. Physical retail still accounts for a huge portion of console game sales. We stubbornly will not let go of buying disc-based games, so publishers still have to cover the excessive costs of printing millions of physical copies, and they also have to cover the potential profit loss they endure from people buying games second-hand. If people just sucked it up and bought digital games over physical ones, then prices per game would drop significantly, and publishers could offer more significant and frequent discounts. Steam is a good example of a marketplace where this is the case.
You could also say it's because retailers like Walmart, Best Buy, etc. profit from physical game sales and can strong-arm the console manufacturers/publishers. Think about it: what's the one thing you always have to buy physically, no matter what? The console. If Sony were to come out and say, "We're going all digital from now on," Wal-Mart could just as easily say, "Oh, you're going to cut into our profits? Well then we want a bigger portion of your console revenue, or we're not going to sell your console at all."
You see what I'm saying? Digital storefronts on consoles are not ideal right now (though they're getting significantly better with flash sales and the like), but digital is obviously cheaper and would allow games to drop significantly in price.
Re: Reaction: The NX Could Benefit from Using Cartridges Instead of Discs
Are you kidding me? This would be an astronomically stupid idea. Can't believe no one has pointed out the obvious: Cartridges may be faster, but they would be bad news for third party support on NX. Do you really expect publishers to jump at the opportunity to spend millions more manufacturing cartridges instead of discs? Not to mention the 32GB limit, which automatically disqualifies some AAA games from fitting onto a cartridge at all (Witcher 3, GTA, Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, etc). This would require the publisher to make a patch available to fill in the rest of the data, essentially making the cartridge version of the game unplayable without a 10-18GB patch. Sure, we do see day one patches for disc-based games, but the space limit on cartridges would require those patches to be way larger, and different in content from patches you would get on PS4 and Xbox One. That's more time and money just to get the game up and running on a Nintendo platform.
Taken together, it's asking a LOT from third party developers to get them to develop for cartridges. It requires more money, development time, and manpower, which is more than third parties would likely be willing to invest after being burned so badly by Nintendo and its fans in the past. It's just more of Nintendo doing what they've done for the last two decades: forcing developers to jump through hoops to get games running on their system, for no other reason than because they want to be "different." Carts were terrible for third parties in the N64's day, and they would be pretty terrible now.
Re: Poll: Nintendo Has Laid Out Its Legend of Zelda E3 Plans - Are They Enough?
Nintendo is going to be very easily overshadowed this E3. Honestly, if all they're showing is Zelda, they might as well have not even showed up. Zelda's not the type of game I want Nintendo's Treehouse to beat to death for three days. I want to discover the secrets of that game myself, not have people dissecting every part of it to the point where I'm tired of even seeing it.
If Nintendo wanted to save face, they could've just said, "You know what guys? We've decided to take this E3 off. We won't be discussing our 2016 games at E3 and we'll share more about those with you in a Direct later this year. BUT we'd like to invite you to tune in this fall/winter to our own NX launch conference. Then you can learn more about the amazing stuff we've got in store for 2017 and beyond."
Boom. That would've been easily forgivable and would've given their fans something to look forward to later. But nope, they're just going to roll up with Zelda at E3 and nothing else, a game that isn't even going to launch until next year, showcasing how utterly vacant the Wii U's final months will be. They're easily going to be embarrassed by their competitors, and it doesn't matter how effing good Zelda is, they will fade into irrelevance at the conference when their competition has way more stuff to show off.
Re: Nintendo NX Will Be Launched Globally in March 2017
@RoomB31 To your points:
You're right, spring is not optimal and it's not impossible to sell units. But it's also not enough to rely on hardcore fans and "tech geeks" to be the only early adopters in March. For one, the number of hardcore Nintendo fans (and ESPECIALLY the number of fans who would adopt early after the flaming garbage heap of a launch the Wii U had) are dwindling in number by the day. Not to mention, I doubt tech geeks and Nintendo fans overlap too much. We are, after all, talking about a company who has been behind on the latest tech for a decade.
The fact that you mentioned Nintendo could just use the early launch to "iron out the kinks" is all the more reason early adopters will have little reason to pick up the next Nintendo console at launch.
And finally, I can't possibly count on Nintendo to have a "media blitz" in the late fall, because they completely failed to use media to properly advertise the Wii U, and their lack of presence at this year's E3 shows that they still don't really know how to give the NX a proper, widespread introduction.
It is all speculation, though. We'll see what happens, but these first moves don't instill much confidence in me.
Re: Nintendo NX Will Be Launched Globally in March 2017
What a couple of asinine decisions!!
1) Man Nintendo is so smart. I mean, why would they show off their next console at the biggest gaming conference of the year? That would be way too much attention! It's much safer to phone in a video about the last 2 or 3 Wii U and 3DS games and ignore that the new console even exists. Talking about the new console would be way too much pressure, and Reggie's poor heart just couldn't take it. I mean, what if they show the NX and get criticized for it? Then they'll look like a bunch of stupid baboons and their feelings would be hurt!
2) Also, since they're not showing off the NX, then they probably shouldn't show off any NX games. In fact, while they're at it, why should they show any games at all? They should only show Zelda. Surely everyone will like Nintendo if they show Zelda and nothing else! That will give people boatloads more confidence in the variety and diversity in their upcoming lineup: showing a game that isn't even due out this year!
3) Oh, and a March launch! What a novel idea! Glad Nintendo has the cojones to do different things from everyone else, even when it makes no sense. I mean, who would want to capitalize on the holiday sales like every other console manufacturer? It's much more innovative to shoot for a March release date, when people are recovering from holiday spending and aren't interested in paying for a 300-400 dollar device!
I jest, but in all seriousness, this thing hasn't even been revealed yet and Nintendo is already making unorthodox, illogical decisions with it. Probably not a good sign.
Re: Nikkei Report Suggests That Wii U Production Will End in 2016
@Project_Dolphin The experiences available on Xbox resonated with me more than what Nintendo seemed to have planned for the next year-plus, so I just switched to something I would use and enjoy more.
Re: Nikkei Report Suggests That Wii U Production Will End in 2016
@Project_Dolphin A mainline 3D Mario game? A Metroid game? Any new IPs (Splatoon seemingly being the only one)? Just to name a few.
Re: Nikkei Report Suggests That Wii U Production Will End in 2016
@hYdeks Nintendo also promised that the DS would be a "third pillar" alongside the GCN and GBA, but then Nintendo promptly dropped all support of the Game Boy Advance in favor of the DS. I would take Nintendo's promises of platform support with a grain of salt.
You're also neglecting the fact that the Wii was an entirely different beast from the Wii U. The Wii sold extraordinarily well, while the Wii U is sputtering out at about 13 million; the worst selling console in their history. It makes sense for Nintendo to pull the plug early. Is the report true? We don't know yet. But it's not ridiculous to suspect it may be.
Re: Nikkei Report Suggests That Wii U Production Will End in 2016
@amiiboacid I'm not a JRPG fan and the first Xenoblade Chronicles didn't do anything for me, so XCX wasn't even on my radar. Was way more tempted by Super Mario Maker than Xenoblade.
Re: Nikkei Report Suggests That Wii U Production Will End in 2016
@amiiboacid I will admit, I got a teensy bit envious when Mario Maker came out, but it didn't affect me too much. Still felt I made the right decision in selling.
Re: Nikkei Report Suggests That Wii U Production Will End in 2016
Bought my Wii U at launch and was super excited for it. Great games were extremely few and far between, but I enjoyed them when they did come out. But then the games stopped coming, my Wii U gathered dust on my shelf for months, and I eventually sold my Wii U for an Xbox One after Nintendo's sh***y Direct last year. I saw the writing on the wall then and it looks like I was right to move on. Haven't regretted it since (got a little envious when Mario Maker came out, but that dissipated pretty quick), and I especially don't regret it now.
One thing's for sure: that was the last time I'll be an early adopter of a Nintendo console. Depending on what the NX is, it might've been the last time I'll buy a Nintendo console period.
Re: Nintendo Life Weekly: "Leaked" NX Controller, Miitomo Japanese Launch Success and More
If that controller turns out to be real, I'll probably use my money on PSVR instead this holiday, and say goodbye to my Nintendo fandom. That controller/handheld, real or not, looks like a total laughingstock. Here's hoping it's fake!
Re: Rumour Buster: Let's Have A Good Look At That "Leaked" NX Controller
Lol I imagine this is fake. But if it turns out to be real, and Nintendo is just making funny looking controllers for the hell of it, I think I'll spend my money on PSVR instead and kiss my Nintendo fandom goodbye.
Re: Talking Point: Sony's PlayStation VR Launch Adds Pressure to Nintendo's Holiday - and Perhaps NX - Plans
As a PS4 owner and lapsed Nintendo fan, I genuinely don't know which one is going to get my money this year (assuming the rumors are true and NX is hitting this year). I am leaning PSVR over NX, because IMO Nintendo has done nothing to prove they're not the same out of touch company that sold me a Wii U.
While I do hope Nintendo has learned from the Wii U and wins me back with the NX, PSVR is an entirely new experience with already pretty significant studio backing, and it's a tempting offer at $399. Nintendo has a lot to prove. To me, at least.
Re: Soapbox: It's too Early to Judge Paper Mario: Color Splash
@Project_Dolphin Well I'm glad that at the very least, you have given feedback about what I was initially arguing in the first place.
You are correct, fan reactions to games do not determine whether the games in question will be mediocre or not. There is no guarantee Color Splash is going to be mediocre, or that it's going to be good. Same with Federation Force. It could pleasantly surprise, or it can thoroughly disappoint. However, the fact that PMCS utilizes the mechanics of the worst game in the series gives reason to doubt its quality compared to other entries in the series. It's not totally unreasonable to have doubts about any game Nintendo has on the horizon based on the gameplay footage they show. Is it possible Color Splash could genuinely impress and prove me wrong? Of course. But the last couple times there was game footage that looked like it was bad, it turned out to actually be bad (Mario Tennis, Amiibo Festival).
It's all filler, because it's increasingly obvious that Nintendo has moved all of their AAA dev teams to the NX, leaving only B and C teams developing on the Wii U. It's why we've seen nothing from Zelda since its delay, and it's why we've seen nothing in the way of Retro, the mainline Mario studio, etc. in years. We're stuck in the space in between.
So I suppose Nintendo's drop in consistency when it comes to game quality lately (and you can't argue they haven't at least been inconsistent, with games as good as Mario Maker and as average as Paper Jam and as abysmal as Mario Tennis) is because at this point they're practically churning out side projects in anticipation for the NX. At best it buys them some time while their best studios can do their thing; at worst it provides the Wii U with some pitiful swan songs.
Re: Soapbox: It's too Early to Judge Paper Mario: Color Splash
@Project_Dolphin That's a straw man argument if I've ever seen one. Sales are obviously not 100% directly linked to the quality of something. I'm saying sales can be extraordinarily reflective of industry attitudes. Which they certainly can be, and often times are. You can use sales of games and hardware to illustrate industry trends and what audiences find value in. Clearly fewer and fewer people are finding value in Nintendo hardware based on the sales data.
Does that in and of itself mean Nintendo's game quality is dropping? No. But I can look at tons of other tangible examples (including reviews) to express my concerns about the direction of the company. Those concerns are based on the three things I've literally been listing this whole time: fewer innovative titles, misreading/ambivalence to their fans when it comes to the development of titles, and several poorly reviewed duds of games that have come out in the last year. Those are the three things I'm basing this entire argument on, and I feel there is plenty of evidence that suggests those issues are, in fact, real. If we're going to keep arguing about how one determines the "goodness" of games, we've moved to a totally different argument entirely.
Re: Soapbox: It's too Early to Judge Paper Mario: Color Splash
@Project_Dolphin
The problem is that it's not a fallacious argument. You failed to explain how sales trends don't reflect industry attitudes. Because they do. Not totally and completely on their own, but they sure help. You said,
"Sales only show the willingness of gamers to buy Nintendo video games..."
Here you openly state that sales show the willingness of gamers to buy Nintendo games. And I agree with you. So how are dwindling sales irrelevant to the attitude of the market? If an increasing number of gamers are refusing to buy Nintendo games, it clearly shows that the general gaming audience is losing interest in Nintendo games. It clearly shows Nintendo's games have less resonance and relevance with the modern hardcore gaming market than in prior generations.
The widespread gaming audience is flocking to other consoles because their games and offerings are more appealing to them than Nintendo's. Not sure how you're failing to see the relevance there. Console sales are a pretty good indication of where your "other gamers in general" are predominantly choosing to play. And it's increasingly not on a Nintendo ecosystem.
Re: Soapbox: It's too Early to Judge Paper Mario: Color Splash
@Project_Dolphin
"Other gamers in general" meaning who? Because based on the declining sales of Nintendo consoles (with the exception of the Wii, which was a fluke that captured a fickle casual audience), and based on the quantity of purchases gamers are making from Nintendo's competitors by comparison, it's pretty clear "other gamers in general" are not as in love with Nintendo games as they used to be.
But it's all good man, If you don't think any of the premises of my claim are true, there's no way I'm going to convince you. We'll see how this generation is remembered and we'll see who turns out to be right!
Re: Soapbox: It's too Early to Judge Paper Mario: Color Splash
@Project_Dolphin
You're right in that this debate has gotten way off track. My original point to begin with is that (based on a string of dud games with little content, a string of games that are either misreads or otherwise totally neglectful of what the audience wants, and a series of games that do little to challenge expectations) Nintendo has given us ample reason to question the idea that they're the same quality developer/publisher they used to be. Not sure how anyone can question that unless they disagree with the premises.
Re: Soapbox: It's too Early to Judge Paper Mario: Color Splash
@Project_Dolphin To deem reviews (professional or otherwise) as the be-all end-all determination of the audience's collective opinion is fairly shortsighted. Message boards and opinion pieces are still valid contributions to that. And so are sales, because they give an objective, factual representation of how many people will shell out for a product a company makes. If Nintendo makes a product and it sells poorly, then it's obviously because the audience does not want what they're selling.
The Wii U is the worst-selling mainline home console in Nintendo's storied history. If people really were clamoring to play Nintendo's Wii U games, don't you think more people would own Wii Us? Instead what I'm seeing is a pretty serious growth in customers who are disenfranchised with what present-day Nintendo is putting out. Sales may not say much about a game's quality, but they sure do say something about whether a product looks appealing enough to the market to warrant a purchase.