Pikmin 4 Will Let You Erase Your Mistakes With A Handy New Rewind Mechanic

Pikmin of Persia The Sands of Time.

I'm fine with it. Seems like a decent way to minimize scenarios where you pull something difficult off at the start of the day without much issue then just pack it in for the day to avoid gambling on bigger losses forcing you to replay the whole day, which is kind of just a method of game design that only really exists to bloat the game out.

If this is Only in easy I'm fine with it.
Hopfully it is removed in Harder difficulty

Yeah, It’s sounding like 4 is the perfect starting point for a series newbie like me. Looking forward to the demo.

I do hope there are some constraints about how much/how often you can use this... but ultimately in a game that isn't focused on precise time management and strategy, maybe it won't break the game.

(TBH that style of game, 1 and 3, are the best Pikmin gameplay style to me and 2 never really clicked, but I hope I find something to like about this as well, it's been one of my most anticipated games for years)

I really hope Pikmin 4 won't be too casualized. It would be a bummer to finally get a new game after so long and then have it be easier than a Kirby game. Obviously Pikmin was never "hardcore" per se, but a certain level of challenge was always there.

I hope you can turn it off. Losing Pikmin for making a mistake is heartbreaking but also teaches you to never make the same mistake again. The game loses any challenge if you can just trial and error your way through every situation.

Hmm, not sure how I feel about that.

Honestly great mechanic for beginners and casual players, but I really do hope we can turn it off, because honestly, the little I did play for the pikmin series, I gotta be honest, I don’t think it’s really needed, and I always learned from my mistakes.

mmm... I guess for now I trust the Pikmin devs to create interesting strategic scenarios, since Pikmin 1 and 3 were so good at that previously. I'm just worried that it will remove from the game any aspect of risk-taking and consequences for failure. And dampen any incentive to get better at the game. ...We'll have to wait and see.

I think it's great. Having to replay an entire day is not hard or anything, but I find having to repeat the same tasks in a Pikmin game to be really boring

@Ara I mean, since Pikmin 1 the series has always had rewind time features, so I doubt it. Pikmin 1 let you go back to the start of any day, Pikmin 2 added the ability to let you restart any floor of a dungeon as well.

You can always just... choose not to use the feature like in previous titles. I didn't in my latest Pikmin 1 playthrough

Admittedly, I did end up using it Pikmin 2 when I wiped every single pikmin I had in the second cave section whoops. But it wasn't worth it to me to play through the entire tutorial again when I had just barely gotten out of it.

"We all remember the Submerged Castle and the Waterwraith within — what we would have given for a rewind mechanic then..."

You could literally reset to the start of the floor in 2 tho? And the only rewinds I've seen in 4 are to the start of an area too - are there more I've missed?

Saves me turning my switch off when I wipe and replaying the whole day.

I think that Pikmin 3 is too easy. The good things about 1 and 2 are that they feel like a real space survival journey and that you are able to get better every day and experience them again with more knowledge. To me, it sounds like Pikmin 4 may destroy the feelings and emotions that the Gamecube games trigger in the player by making progression more automatic and safer, less dangerous.

So, like the rewind in forza? I could see that being useful in a level where you just want it over and done with

All about it. I love inclusive features like this, especially for newcomers.

And I know there is a lot of clamor in the comments for the ability to ‘turn it off’, but isn’t that just having the discipline to not use it? 🙃

Nintendo is doing a lot of work to remove barriers to entry with this series in Pikmin 4, it's pretty commendable.

If you can't turn it off then this will lessen the experience for a lot of people.

Anyway, the existence of rewinds/saves existing in 2 already notwithstanding, I have mixed feelings on this mechanic as a fan of Fire Emblem, where rewinds have, for better or worse, become a part of the series for 6 years now. I still think it sort of creates an environment that can permit bad game design to sneak through - instead of fixing Gaiden's archaic design for FE Echoes, they slapped rewinds as a bandage fix, for instance.

But it feels especially odd in Pikmin, especially a pikmin title with no time limit. While I understand the emotional attachment to them, Pikmin are not unique characters like you get in FE. If you lose a bunch, it sucks, but you can just get more of them. So to that end it feels a bit odd to have such a generous rewind, since it feels like it circumvents the existing game design that existed to account for such a scenario.

On the other hand, without an overarching time limit in this game... what does it matter? It's the same issue with Pikmin 2, I feel. There's no time limit save your own dwindling patience, so since regrowing your army after a loss is essentially free anyway, why not just let players rewind?

TLDR I don't have a problem with rewinds per se, and Pikmin 2 already had similarly generous saves in caves. I do take issue with the lack of pressure or time limit, though.

@People saying there needs to be an option to turn it off:
Why? Just don't use the mechanic if you're against it, there doesn't need to be an on/off option. This isn't like Pokémon's Exp Share debate where having it on or off affects gameplay. Having this on will only affect your gameplay if YOU choose to use it. At the end of the day it won't lessen your experience, but it will enhance another persons.

@RupeeClock I mean just don’t ever use it then…? 3H had the “rewind time to cover up mistake” feature too, but you can ignore it for the entire game if you wish if you want “challenge”.

I completely agree. That is the point of the whole game and getting all Pikmin to survive is the greatest reward for the player. Pikmin is all about that.

@its_luke_c Exactly that. Actually, that feature might make players not care about pikmins and rush their way forward, not enhancing but downgrading the experience.

I'm not against easy modes at all but in the case of Pikmin, they break the whole concept because the difficulty of Pikmin is based on basic survival and strategy aspects and managing and reproducing whatever pikmins you are able to.

@TanukiTrooper I was going to say the exact same thing. The people complaining about it seem to argue that having it available without the means to completely deactivate it will tempt them to use the function. That’s just silly to me. If you don’t like that the function is there then just don’t use it. Simple as that. Nothing in the game is going to force you to use it. Oh well I guess people need to find something to complain about

great, i cant stand getting better at anything. 😞

EDIT - on second thought, im all for having this feature in this game.

there should be an option to turn it ON. 👍

@Darthmoogle

imposing a self handicap through force of will is not the same as having challenge built into the game. ✌️

@TanukiTrooper

"At the end of the day it won't lessen your experience, but it will enhance another persons."

thats exactly what i could, would, and am saying to you about the option to turn it off. 👍

@-wc- depends on the code of the game. Some games it be easy to implement the option to disable this kind of features, others not so much. It really is up to how Nintendo's programers implemented the option. I hope it's toggle-able, but I won't get too upset if I have to resist the urge to do a do-over.

@PLATINUM7
So close! Wouldn't sand pit of been better though

@-wc- I fail to see the difference between ignoring a feature and having the ability to turn it off. At the end of the day you are still self imposing challenge. Having a toggle in the options menu will not change anything. Either you want to use it or not. I personally will not but I don’t have an issue with it being there for younger/inexperienced players that want to enjoy the game. This is like selecting the easiest difficulty option and then complaining it’s too easy. You already have the choice not to use it. Having the ability to disable it in the options is essentially the same as just ignoring it

@RupeeClock Yes and no. Let's use Fire Emblem as the example. In a "casual mode" run of the game either Conquest or Three Houses there are still consequences of those characters fainting even without "classic" permadeath. If that unit dies in the map they don't get bonus experience for clearing the map, increase in skill points, plus that is unable to defeat enemies limiting their ability to level-up at the same pace as other units. In 3H even though you can "level grind" on off-days you are limited by how much you can use that feature during that day, or spending crucial action points to invest in Byleth to recruit better units from other houses than the one you now need to extra invest in. There are consequences for the character still fainting due to bad play. In Conquest with the limited amount of chapters and no avenue to level grind this is even more punishing as now you must either bench that unit in hopes that the others can carry the team and miss out in a unit that grows into an S-tier unit (in FE historically weak early game units tend to be some of the best in the game compared to higher level units you get early on due to the extra stat-growths they can get), or now put extra care into them leveling up in the next map and possibly knee-cap other units you are investing in and just messing up the party.

So, yes if the game is properly balanced around these features these extra features don't actively harm the experience that much. In 3H even though you can turn back a few turns you are limited to how many you can do that a map, and in some cases you may have screwed yourself outside of it's ability to help you. It is more convenient to use that tool, but in some cases it is about worthless anyways so it doesn't matter if you use it or just reset to an earlier save.

I think it entirely depends on how Pikmin uses this feature and how much it impacts that game. I like the Fire Emblem example as despite how casual mode and the ability to go back a few turns is lambasted by 'hardcore' fans it is not as game breaking as they think it is, but in less balanced games like Awakening and Birthright they do punish you far less outside of time commitment. If Pikmin makes the feature an expendable resource which is in limited amounts (Pikmin loves doing this in general) then I don't think the feature will be abused (even if it is limited to 1-3 times a day depending on how far you are in said game).

Eww! Modern Nintendo design is made for babies and people with babies.

This will absolve some of my guilt.

Bring those poor Pikmin back to life!

While I understand the issue of having it in the game, possibly cutting the difficulty for certain scenarios, it also means the designers can take more freedom in making the game more difficult in general, since those who want to use the rewind can do so and people who want to enjoy the challenge are free to.

@Darthmoogle

Yup agreed. People don’t understand that there are always “easy ways” to beat a game anyway that you don’t have to do. People here are really overreacting that a Pikmin game of all games isn’t gonna be Dark Souls difficulty because of the existence of this optional feature lol

“Time reverse” just like in the other games that have it is not even something that makes something “easier” anyway, but is more a QoL feature so people don’t waste time to reload their game save files anyway to fix a critical mistake. People are gonna try to deny that they don’t do this, but they do.

@Darthmoogle

"This is like selecting the easiest difficulty option and then complaining it’s too easy. You already have the choice not to use it. Having the ability to disable it in the options is essentially the same as just ignoring it."

Read through what you said a couple times.

i already have the choice not to use the "easy" setting in the OPTIONS menu. Yes.

What you are saying is that NOT using the easy mode option in the options menu is NOT akin to having the option for rewind in the same menu. But it is. thats what i want. the option. like with easy mode.

thank you.

@Arawn93

or, the point of games is that there are good consequences when you do well, and bad consequences when you do badly. thats what makes it a game, and not a cartoon or edutainment program.

by your logic, there is no problem with games having a "win" button, that takes you straight to the credits, or a "hiscore" button, that instantly gives you the high score. you dont have to press it! but its existence kind of makes the rest of the game pointless. in my opinion.

again, all im asking is that baby mode be an option for those who need it, not an integral part of the game's design. ✌️

y'all would hate this game i love. its called chess. zero "quality of life" features 😅

@-wc- Amen. All I ask is to keep these rewind, redo, and forgive modes to the easy setting. Or let me turn them the frig off. Being able to win without any consequence isnt a QOL feature haha.

@Aurumonado why? Who is forcing you to use it?

Couldn't you just have the self discipline not to use?

@-wc- Silly argument. Chessmaster for the NES had a rewind function.

The idea that you don't have the discipline to not use a rewind function is an indication of a lack of self control in you, not an issue with the game.

@teamdave2002

you are aware that all im pushing for is for this to be an "opt-in" feature, right?

would you like to try to refute my actual position, or keep attacking me personally?

(also, it's called a joke 😂 i was joking about chess. of course there are digital, 1p versions of chess with rewind, but

THATS NOT CHESS. IF YOU ARE REWINDING YOU ARE LITERALLY NOT PLAYING CHESS.

thank you. ✌️)

EDIT - saying that chess has rewind because chessmaster on NES is like saying karate has fireballs because streetfighter lol. this was a total "Jerk Store" moment for me but i had to get it out anyway 😂

@teamdave2002 If the feature is there then a lot of people will use it. Most people are using the divine pulse in Fire Emblem because it's right there - but the experience is cheapened and beating the game feels less like an accomplishment.

I can see the feature being a useful addition for certain instances in the game, but I can't see myself using it a whole lot as a whole. I think it kind of devalues the time management, resource management, and overall gameplay that it's supposed to be offering. I can definitely see the appeal for younger players though. It might allow more players to get into the franchise. A fresh generation.

@Aurumonado if using rewind cheapens then game for you (which makes no sense to me) then simply don’t use it. What’s so hard about this concept?

@-wc- your premise makes no sense.

Why can’t you simply not use the feature? Who’s holding a gun to your head forcing your hand?

There’s nothing in your post to indicate you were joking about chess.

And you don’t get to define chess. Simply rewinding or taking back a move doesn’t mean you’re not playing chess. That’s a silly argument.

@its_luke_c @its_luke_c why do you need to turn them off?

Why can’t you simply not use them?

I really don’t get this argument. What’s so hard about not rewinding if you don’t want to?

Oh, cool. A win button. Why not include a "forward" button to the game as well so the game can play itself through.

I don't like "mechanics" like this at all. When you make it impossible to lose the game- whatever game- you literally take out the entire point of the game. If there is no challenge there is no feeling of success. I thought the game developers had learned this already with the success of Dark Souls etc.

I hate when they takeaway challenge from a game.

@teamdave2002

"There’s nothing in your post to indicate you were joking about chess."

except for the tone, and the laughing emoji.

"And you don’t get to define chess."

LOL chess was "defined" centuries before you, I, or chessmaster for NES were ever even thought of, friend. and yeah, there's no "takebacks" in chess. 😅 takebacks are for babies, i knew that in 5th grade. I know something about chess, i won a tournament that year.

again, i didn't say "throw the game in the trash." i said "please make it an opt in from the menu so i can play a game with adult style consequences, because im not a baby." or something to that effect.

This ENTIRE game is built around the idea that you win some, you lose some, and you find out how well you did at the end of the "day," and try again if you want to do better. thats the loop. if you dont see how a rewind feature weakens the game, if it doesnt bother you, good for you! you are winning, because its in there.

Nintendo games were tough but fair my whole life, and now they are something else. if that being a problem for me is a problem for you, idk what to tell you.

Love seeing some of the quality of life improvements for this game. I used to get upset when I was trying not to lose any Pikmin. I’d get close to the end of day and then lose one or two. I’d have to start all over. The rewind mechanic I can see being used quite a bit. Also love seeing the Pikmin being able to ride on the back of Oatchi. It will make it easier to keep track of all my Pikmin.

@Ara

May I ask why you think only hard core gamers are allowed to play? Dont you think people that only play a few hours a month, have disabilities or less reaction times should be allowed to play games?

I have seen this a lot. I personally got told to search for another hobby, because I complained about being unable to reach the last 25% of 3D World.

Pikmin3 has four difficulties and you can rewind a day even in older Pikmin games. Other games like DK-Country got an easy character and people blaimed Nintendo for making the game too easy. It is an OPTION! Just don't use it.

I dont get why people complain about games having these options. On the other side the same people blame Nintendo for not adding more accessibility options. So in the end the games are accessible but must not have any options to make it easier?

People complaining here should google for the words "option" and "optional". They may be surprised about the description.

That's awesome. I'm a firm believer in options. More games should have difficulty options ranging from "the game plays itself" to "this is literally unbeatable".

I think people just want to really know that it is optional, as they're a bit concerned in case this could ruin a large part of the experience for them.

Anyway yeah, sounds like it's optional.

For me, unpopular opinion, I think I will actually like this. It feels weird but I like the idea of getting Pikmin back. I don't know. I only played Pikmin 1 though, and I did enjoy it. But yes I think it definitely should be an option and a choice but sounds like it is.

I am also for people being allowed to disable it entirely if they want.

@EvilSilentFrame

in your scenario, you still lost pikmin. ✌️ the rewind feature "tricks" the game, but you know you didnt acheive what you set out to do.

EDIT - this gave me an idea - any score acheived using the rewind feature will get an asterisk. better instead, a gold star for 100%s that are acheived without the feature 👍👍 surely we can all agree to that! ☺️

In hindsight I think it would've been a bit nicer if this mechanic was tied to a specific mode only. Challenge is what makes makes Pikmin games "real-time strategy" after all.

@-wc- in my scenario it’ll help me get a feel for the level. Instead of starting the day over and over, I can rewind and get through the day. Then I can start the day over to try and achieve no Pikmin loss.

There’s been so many times where I find a group of enemies where I lost Pikmin. I would start the whole day over and repeat till I got past that group only to later on in the day lose Pikmin. I like this new feature even if there will be an asterisk. I can learn my path for the day better. Can’t wait for this game.

Nice for Nintendo to add a journalist mode, unless.....

@EvilSilentFrame

i like where we have landed, with this 🙂 i like your idea that you would use rewind almost as "practice," and return to the level and try to do a solid, perfect run. this, combined with a special designation for "true" scores using no rewind, is a good setup i think. 👍

we shall see! ✌️